0316 - The post 2017 Pentagon Cases
US fighter pilot who witnessed tic-tac UFOs claims craft disabled his weapons in a ‘act of war’
A US Navy pilot whose plane filmed the famous "tic-tac" UFO footage has revealed how his weapons system was disabled during the eerie encounter. Seventeen years on, Lieutenant Commander Chad Underwood said when he tried to track the "target of interest", he began seeing "strobe lines" on his cockpit radar.
UFOs have stepped from a fringe conspiracy theory to a genuine national security debate as the US last week admitted hundreds of mysterious encounters in the skies. It followed the Pentagon confirming Mr Underwood’s in-flight "tic-tac" video from 2004, recorded by his F/A-18 Super Hornet, was authentic. The incident unfolded during a USS Nimitz carrier group exercises off the coast of Mexico.
Crew aboard the Ticonderoga-class guided missile cruiser USS Princeton, had been spending the past two weeks tracking mysterious aircraft on and off with an advanced AN/SPY-1B passive radar. Now, speaking to filmmaker Jeremy Corbell, Mr Underwood has revealed how his weapons system was suddenly crippled after he attempted to track the "tic-tac" object which was moving at incredible speeds.
He said:
"Once I got the target of interest on my radar I took a lock and that’s when all the kinda funky things started happening. Once I got the target of interest on my radar I took a lock and that’s when all the kinda funky things started happening. The erratic nature of the tic-tac. The air speed was very telling to me. Then we started seeing what we call jam strobe lines. Strobe lines are vertical lines that show up on your radar that are indications that you are being jammed."
Mr Corbell's extraordinary interview with Mr Underwood detailing the "act of war" UFO encounter will appear in full at a later date. French warplane pilots have also reported heir weapons systems being disabled during UFO encounters, according to an official investigation. After releasing the bombshell report last week, it appears the US Department of Defense (DoD) is preparing to set up a new unit dedicated to the strange phenomena, similar to secretive agencies in hit TV show The X-Files and movie series Men in Black.
DoD officials released a memo on Friday which stated they will now seek to "formalise" the investigations of UFOS, often now referred to as Unidentified Aerial Phenomena (UAPs). UAPs are currently the main brief of the UAP Task Force, a body set up after a series of stunning leaked videos show strange encounters between the phenomena and US warplanes.
And a memo released by the DoD set out a three point plan to pull together US investigations to try and work out exactly what these mysterious objects that defy normal understanding could be. The first point states the DoD wants to "synchronize collection, reporting and analysis" of UAPs, and to "secure" military test and training ranges. And then next it states it wants to set aside resources and staffing to continue the probe, seemingly confirming the establishment of a formal office. Finally, it states there must be "coordination" between all arms of the US military and the intelligence services on the issue.
UFOS have stepped from fringe conspiracy theories to a genuine national security debate in the US. Pentagon officials last year took the unprecedented step to confirm a trio of remarkable videos which showed US encounters with UFOs. The debate is still open as to what the phenomena caught on film were – but it made clear to everyone, something is in the skies. Perhaps the most striking was a video known as the "Tic-Tac" – which showed an unidentified object being pursued by fighter planes.
The US also confirmed the existence of the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program (AATIP) – a Pentagon programme set up to study UFOs before being disbanded in 2017. However, it was replaced by the UAP Task Force in June 2020 after a vote by the US Senate Intelligence Committee. Defence chiefs have since confirmed a number of leaked UFO videos and photos which were submitted to the Task Force for investigation.
Why this sudden rush for transparency? No outside the secretive wings of the US government currently knows for sure. And as a tacked on addendum to a 5,500 page Covid relief bill passed in December, the the Director of National Intelligence’s office was ordered to compile a report on UFOs within 180 days. The UAP report dropped as expected on June 25, and while not giving much away - it did not rule anything out either as much of it remains classified.
The US appear to have acknowledged that UFOs - whatever they are - are real and are a potential threat to national security as they appear to be able to enter restricted airspace with total impunity. Is it aliens? Officially the US position is simply, "we don't know yet" as further disclosure is expected in the coming months and years. DoD staff will also have to report an apparent encounter with a UAP within two weeks to allow it to be more properly investigated, the memo reads. It was signed off by deputy secretary of defense Kathleen Hicks.
The move is a major win for campaigners who have been calling on the US to take the issue of UFOs more seriously, and is being sent as another step on the road to potential disclosure. Most of the sightings bear similarities. Some are tic-tac shaped while others are triangular or circular. Ex-CIA director John Brennan says 'Tic Tac' UFO seen near USS Nimitz 'could be a different life form'
long-awaited report on UFOs—what the government now prefers to call unidentified aerial phenomena or UAPs—was released on June 25 by the director of national intelligence. It takes into account 144 verified sightings of UAP observed by military personnel over the past 15 years and attempts to make sense of them. The sightings are classified into five categories. The first four are familiar: airborne clutter, weather anomalies, U.S. government developmental craft, foreign adversary technology. The fifth—perplexingly vague—is simply “other.”
On Friday’s episode of What Next: TBD, I spoke with Shane Harris, who reports on intelligence and national security for the Washington Post, about the government’s attempts to figure out what exactly is in the sky. It’s less a story of little green men, and more one of military technology and mystery. Our conversation has been edited and condensed for clarity.
Lizzie O’Leary: Not too long ago it might’ve seemed surprising for the intelligence community to publish a report like this. The public only learned that the government was collecting this information in 2017 when the New York Times published a story on it. Why has there had been such a sea change in the way the government talks about UAPs?
Shane Harris: I think one thing that’s driving it is just the very large number of these encounters and these sightings. Also, the fact that so many of them are being captured on film and—in the case of the Times report—made public. So you’ve got this moment where these seemingly very sane, highly credible pilots, we can now see them reacting to this anomalous object. This is categorically different than black and white photos or the weird grainy footage that somebody took with a camcorder of lights in the sky. This is a camera from inside a multimillion-dollar fighter jet with professionals flying it. So you can’t ignore it.
What did pilots see in some of these incidents?
The most famous incident was in 2004 where pilots who were attached to the USS carrier Nimitz had this encounter that has been described as the “Flying Tic Tac.” They were out flying over the ocean, and they looked down and they saw what appeared to be whitewater on the surface of the ocean, where the surface was troubled or roiling in some kind of a way. They look down and atop this spot in the water they see this object that they’ve described as looking like a capsule—which is where the flying Tic Tac analogy comes from. It was moving very erratically, seemingly very randomly over the surface of the water, doing all kinds of things that a plane doesn’t do. It doesn’t appear to have wings. It doesn’t appear to have a propulsion system like a jet or a propeller. And then it just disappears. There’s been some reporting that it’s then picked up two seconds later, many, many miles away by the radar systems on the carrier. So these people are describing—and the sensors are backing them up—some kind of physical object that appears to be moving at rates of speed and demonstrating aerodynamic properties and characteristics that don’t match what we understand as human technology.
Part of the report that stood out to me was about flight characteristics. These things are stationary in wind, they’re moving against the wind. They’re going really fast. And what I find so interesting is it’s just flopped into the report. There’s no “why” behind that. It’s just the “what.”
It’s the most intriguing part of the report, I think. It’s almost as if they’ve gone out, they’ve seen this thing that very few people have ever seen before and they can’t explain it, but they don’t attempt to explain it. The report says, “appear to remain stationary in winds aloft, moved against winds, maneuver abruptly, or move a considerable speed without discernible means of propulsion.” It’s this very clinical, technical way of describing something extraordinary and completely anomalous in the experience of these pilots.
Of course, people seeing something anomalous in the sky isn’t new. The U.S. government has been thinking about and studying UAPs and sometimes manipulating the public perception of them since the end of World War II.
Famously, in 1969, a study was published, formally known as the Condon Committee, which was an Air Force-funded effort out of the University of Colorado, to basically try and apply some more scientific study to unidentified flying objects. This study ultimately concludes that this is not an area worthy of scientific inquiry. At the same time, it’s not as though the government then for years is not aware of other sightings, but it doesn’t appear that there’s any really rigorous effort—or even formal effort at all—to categorize them.
It becomes almost a kind of folklore, even within the military. And pilots who’ve talked about seeing things out there talk about the reluctance to share those stories with people—even though they’ve all had them—because you’ll be looked at like you’re crazy, or you’re a fool, or you’re reaching for a conclusion that’s not supported by evidence. And that that’s not behavior we like to see, certainly from scientists, but also from people who are trained to fly really expensive aircraft.
In the Cold War era, the government did little to discourage fanciful stories about aliens, because they served as cover when civilians accidentally spotted secret technology—most famously near Roswell, New Mexico and Nevada’s Area 51. The myths around those sightings fed the public appetite for spooky things and helped keep secrets secret.
So in a sense, the government has an incentive for making you think this is all just spooky ghost stories and nonsense, because it keeps you from asking questions about the actual supersonic jet and the stealth aircraft that the military is developing. So the stigma in some ways worked for the military and the intelligence community. But now, what we’re finding from experts is that it’s very much working against them, because there are clearly these sightings of objects that are not U.S. government technology. And if people in the military are afraid to report them, then we’re not going to have good information to figure out what they are.
When it comes to unknown phenomena in the sky, a lot of us think of aliens and crazy movie plot lines, but our national security apparatus is thinking more in terms of defense.
They’re viewing these things as threats. These are objects in our airspace, next to our warships, next to our planes. And we don’t know what they are. They may be hostile. They could be collecting information. If they’re a foreign government system, it could be collecting intelligence on us.
If these are Russian or Chinese hypersonic drones, would we even get a clear picture of that?
It’s a great question. If we’re not getting a clear picture of it, one question is why? Let’s just posit, for sake of argument, that the Russians or the Chinese have developed highly advanced craft that don’t look like normal planes, that move at incredible speeds. Why have we not detected that until now? Why have they been able to keep that a secret? If we’ve invested all of this money in advanced weaponry of our own and advanced detection systems, but our adversaries have managed to build something that completely got past us, that is more advanced than anything that we have, and that defies our ability to characterize it in any kind of consistent or dependable way, that would be a really, really big deal and would speak to some major vulnerability or gap in our national security architecture.
You cover national security and intelligence. How did your sources react to this?
I think with a bit of befuddlement as well, but most people I have talked to on this look at these systems—the ones that really display the abnormal flight characteristics—and they say, “This is not the U.S. government’s. We didn’t build this.” The U.S. government does not have the technology and the capability to build systems that accelerate to thousands of miles an hour, or sit there and appear to hover in the wind with no sign of propulsion.
And does Raytheon? Or are they saying this belongs to some other country, some other technological alignment?
The people I’ve talked to who think that it could be a manmade technology hold out the possibility that it is a Russian or a Chinese system that’s very advanced. They can’t understand though, in the cases of the ones—these 18 or so observed incidents that just defy all understanding of aerodynamics—how the Russians or the Chinese could have built something even more advanced than our stuff. And maybe that speaks to a kind of American bias that we have the best technology, but based on everything we observe, we do. If we haven’t built a sort of hypersonic Tic Tac, do we really think the Chinese built it? My sources are very skeptical of that.
This report is only nine pages long and it’s unclassified. There is another version that is classified. Basically, the government is only telling us a little bit. What did you make of that?
From talking to people who’ve seen the classified version of the report and from reading other reporting on that, it doesn’t seem like the classified version is reaching a conclusion that they’re not sharing. I think what you’re going to find is just more documentation about the individual incidents, but no particular answer. And what I made of this is that the intelligence community—and the military—are being very careful not to get ahead of themselves on this subject, because I think that would only undermine and potentially discredit the whole inquiry.
You had this amazing quote in your story from Bill Nelson—NASA administrator, former Senator, former astronaut—who saw the classified version and said, “The hair stood up on the back of my neck.” As a citizen, as a taxpayer, I want to know more. How much should we get to know?
Well, I think that it’s reasonable to think that Americans should get to know a lot more. If it’s adversary technology, if it’s Russian or Chinese, and there’s a legitimate national security reason to keep it a secret, OK, I guess we could have that argument. But why shouldn’t people have the right to know about these unidentified objects that are flying around doing these extraordinary things that are being observed frankly, by people who we pay our tax dollars to record these videos?
When will we know what these unidentified objects really are?
I think the answer to that question actually depends on how much the government is willing to fund more research into figuring out what these things are, because I actually don’t think—and maybe I’ll be proven wrong about this—I don’t think the ultimate answer to what it is is sitting someplace in a file, locked away in a vault, metaphorically anyway. I don’t think that there are five people in the government who actually know the answer. And so whether they intend to actually make a good-faith effort to learn that, or just happily dwell in the mystery, is really going to depend upon public pressure.
Future Tense is a partnership of Slate, New America, and Arizona State University that examines emerging technologies, public policy, and society.
U.S. national security officials today delivered a report to Congress about investigations into a series of unidentified flying object sightings, a landmark sign that this previously fringe topic has gained mainstream acceptance. And while the report, produced by the office of the Director of National Intelligence (DNI), does provide some new information about the inexplicable occurrences, it leaves many of the biggest questions unanswered.
Yes, Navy pilots and other military personnel have been seeing mysterious flying objects for decades; a Navy task force reviewed 144 sightings by U.S. government personnel that occurred between 2004 and 2021. No, the Pentagon doesn’t know what they are. There’s no evidence that the objects were sent by space aliens, but the report, mandated by Congress as part of the 2021 National Intelligence Authorization Act, confirms that the sightings remain “unidentified.”
But no one in the intelligence community uses the term UFO anymore. The new moniker is Unidentified Aerial Phenomenon, or UAP—a name change meant to signal that the U.S. government is taking the mysterious sightings seriously.
The report, which includes a classified section available only to lawmakers, details the results of investigations by the Defense Department’s UAP Task Force, established in 2017. Strange flying objects with seemingly bizarre aerodynamic abilities have been spotted by pilots, on radar, and with infrared sensors. The report does state that the UAP Task Force was not able to attribute any of the sightings to American military or other advanced U.S. government technology. “Some UAP observations could be attributable to developments and classified programs by U.S. entities,” the report says. “We were unable to confirm, however, that these systems accounted for any of the UAP reports we collected.”
The most famous UAP encounters in modern aviation history—cases from 2004, 2014, and 2015 that involve pilot sightings, radar tracking, and objects caught on video—remain unsolved. The UAP Task Force considered conventional explanations for the sightings, such as natural atmospheric phenomena, misidentified civilian aircraft, and radar malfunction—but except for one report that they attributed to a deflating balloon, the investigators “currently lack sufficient information in our dataset to attribute incidents to specific explanations.” The uncertainty leaves stranger and more disturbing theories to be considered, such as “foreign adversary systems” and what the report refers to as “a catchall ‘other’ bin.”
Even without answers, the report is a welcome validation for those in the military who witnessed unknown objects in the sky. “We were ridiculed and mocked by so many, so now it feels nice to have people ask good questions and to have them really be interested in getting to the bottom of it,” says Alex Dietrich, a former Navy pilot who observed a UAP in 2004. “Then, of course, there’s that underlying sense of urgency that we all have: Is this a threat to national security?”
A number of U.S. officials are now posing that same question. What Dietrich saw in the sky 16 years ago started a series of events that changed the discussion about unidentified aerial sightings forever.
An Encounter at Sea
On November 14, 2004, Lieutenant Junior Grade Dietrich was pushed back into the cockpit seat of her F/A-18 Super Hornet as it sped 150 miles per hour toward the edge of the flight deck of the aircraft carrier U.S.S. Nimitz. The g-forces increased as she applied the afterburners and roared away from the ship to begin a day of routine, pre-deployment training off the coast of California, near Catalina Island.
Just after leaving the deck of the Nimitz, she observed an oblong object hovering over the water. It suddenly leaped into motion, skimming 500 to 1,000 feet over the waves at around 500 knots (575 mph). The fighter jet’s onboard radar couldn’t detect the object, but Dietrich’s weapons systems operator (WSO) in the rear seat—whose name is not public—saw it too, crying out over the radio. “We were trying to call out what we are seeing to each other, and to make sure everybody else is seeing it,” recalls Dietrich, who was a new pilot back in 2004, only completing flight training in March 2003. “It’s moving so erratically and so fast that our voices, our minds, and then our radio calls can’t keep up with it.”
Military pilots are particularly adept at what aviation folks call “reece,” short for reconnaissance, and referring more specifically in this case to the art of recognizing aircraft by their shapes, paint schemes, unit insignia, and so on. “We train our eyes and our minds to make those split-second categorizations,” Dietrich says. “We saw that there was a vehicle; there was a vessel there. Then almost immediately: That is not any vehicle or vessel I recognize.”
Other Super Hornets launched behind Dietrich, one with pilot Cmdr. David Fravor and WSO Lt. Cmdr. Jim Slaight on board, and another piloted by Lt. Cmdr. Chad Underwood and an unidentified aviator. Warned that something was out there, Underwood managed to capture the craft on a forward looking infrared camera. It was 40 feet long, round and smooth, and quickly received the nickname “Tic-Tac.”
What Dietrich didn’t know at the time was that unexplained objects had been detected on radar in that same airspace for days. Gary Voorhis, a Petty Officer 3rd Class on the U.S.S. Princeton guided missile cruiser, a ship training with the Nimitz, began to see things appear on his radar screens on November 10, four days before Dietrich’s flight.
Voorhis, with six years in the Navy at the time, was the technician responsible for two of the Princeton’s combat systems, and what he was seeing was impossible. In just seconds, an object had dropped to the waterline from 60,000 feet, hovered, and then zipped away at high velocity. It made right angle turns that were confounding. “Before it was reported even to the Captain, those systems were triple checked,” Voorhis says. “And then once it was taken up with the Captain, they were triple checked again. Everything was working perfect, which made it even creepier.”
The strange objects returned over several days. Voorhis made it a point to look with his own eyes, asking watch officers for radar information so he could know where to aim his binoculars. “I was able to see it on the horizon,” he recalls. “I got to see it during the night and during the day. And it definitely was a glowing object. Could I tell you for 100 percent certainty it was exactly what we were tracking? No, but I was just looking at the bearing and elevation, and it was exactly where it was supposed to be.”
Despite the radar evidence, when Dietrich and her WSO reported what they saw, it received little attention from superiors and opened the two naval aviators to jokes about space aliens. “When I came back and we were being ridiculed and dismissed by the crew, I said to myself … well then, they know what it is,” Dietrich says. “It must be some sort of blue [United States or allied] system. It must be some sort of highly classified, compartmentalized system, and we were inadvertently vectored into its test range.”
If so, she was angry to be ordered into cluttered airspace with no warning. Before any flight, pilots are briefed on every environmental nuance, from the air humidity to bird sightings. Dietrich now knows that radar operators like Voorhis tracked odd returns for days, and the Navy leadership launched her training flights anyway, with no mention of the anomalies.
The inability to address the mysterious objects—“there’s no box on the checklist for UFOs,” Dietrich says—left her unprepared for the encounter and put her at risk of a collision. “UAP clearly pose a safety of flight issue and may pose a challenge to U.S. national security,” the report states, confirming “11 reports of documented instances in which pilots reported near misses with a UAP.”
“Look at That Thing, Dude!”
The sighting receded in importance as Dietrich’s career progressed. She served in Iraq and Afghanistan, logging more than 1,250 hours and 375 carrier landings during combat missions. She then worked several well-placed administrative jobs with the Navy in Washington, D.C., while pursuing an MBA from the George Washington University School of Business, which she received in 2014.
But the ripple effects of the sighting never really went away. Officials in the Pentagon repeatedly asked her to brief people who wanted to hear her story firsthand. Since 2004, Dietrich has been requested to deliver briefings at least once a year and usually more, often enough that it became a nuisance.“It was a total pain in the ass,” she says. “Then it started with the Hill: Can you come brief these senators and congressman? McCain's office is interested in this. How do you say no to John McCain?” During presidential turnovers, Pentagon officials even asked her to brief the new administrations, speaking with senior-level naval intelligence officials, both civilian and military.
Interest in the sightings waxed and waned but definitively spiked in late 2014 and early 2015, when Super Hornets attached to the U.S.S. Roosevelt began encountering fast-moving, unidentified aircraft that looked, in one pilot’s words, like “a cube inside a sphere.” Equipped with upgraded radar, these warplanes were able to track the strange targets. Early the next year, three sets of gun-camera videos also captured flying objects, which have since been nicknamed “Gimbal” and “Go-Fast.” “They’re all going against the wind; the wind’s 120 knots to the west,” one pilot remarks in a recorded encounter. “Look at that thing, dude!” another cries out. “Look at that thing! It’s rotating.”
The naval aviators who shot the footage have not been identified, but two pilots have come forward as witnesses, Lt. Danny Aucoin and Lt. Ryan Graves. In both 2014 and 2015, they spotted odd returns on their radar screens and captured strange wingless, tailless objects on the airplane’s video cameras. In interviews, Aucoin has said that the objects reacted to the warplanes and moved around them. These pilots, and others who remain unidentified, saw objects at various altitudes, including sea level, and tracked them accelerating to hypersonic speeds—greater than five times the speed of sound. Some exhibited extreme endurance, staying in the air for up to 12 hours without refueling. Others seemed to descend into the water, as shown on videos taken by Navy personnel.
The fact that the craft were again operating near American aircraft carriers raised blood pressures among military officials and politicians. Bill Nelson, the new administrator of NASA, was one of those briefed on UAPs when he was a Florida senator. “A couple of years ago, as a member of the Senate Armed Services Committee, I was briefed on what those Navy pilots saw, and I have talked to the Navy pilots,” Nelson, who served on the committee from 2013 to 2017, recently told Politico. “These are pilots who locked their radar on it. They tracked and then they saw it move so fast that they couldn’t believe it. And then they went and tracked it again, locked their radar on it in a new position. So, there’s some phenomenon that we need to explain.”
In 2017 the Pentagon formed the UAP Task Force to investigate the inexplicable occurrences, but the Defense Department denied the program existed until 2020, when Congress revealed it in legislative language. The Senate Intelligence Committee, then headed by Senator Marco Rubio, shortly thereafter ordered a report on what the UAP Task Force had been up to. That report reveals that strange flight behavior was spotted in numerous UAP sightings. “In 18 incidents, described in 21 reports, observers reported unusual UAP movement patterns or flight characteristics,” it says. “We are conducting further analysis to determine if breakthrough technologies were demonstrated.”
Inexplicable Craft
Consensus has gelled around the idea that at least some physical aircraft were flying during the encounters reported by Navy pilots. The DNI report supports this point of view: “Most of the UAP reported probably do represent physical objects, given that a majority of UAP were registered across multiple sensors, to include radar, infrared, electro-optical, weapon seekers, and visual observation.”
The repeated sightings around military ships makes U.S. defense officials wonder if another country with malicious motives could be responsible. Russia and China, both geopolitical foes with rapidly advancing militaries and a keen interest in blunting the U.S. Navy’s influence around the globe, have been put forward as primary suspects. A theory within defense circles is that at least one foreign navy has been flying aircraft near American vessels to spy on their reactions.
This explanation is satisfyingly rational, but details of the UAP encounters leave a lot of room for doubt. If there were aircraft flying near the Navy jets, and they were not American, where did they launch from? When Super Hornets encountered a UAP near Jacksonville in January 2015, there did happen to be a Russian military vessel transiting the area. The Viktor Leonov, a Russian Navy intelligence warship, arrived in Havana, Cuba, on January 20, 2015. The spy ship collects signals, but it is not a launch platform for experimental aircraft—submarines would be a better option for that.
Russian submarines are as good or better at prowling U.S. coastlines now as they were during the Cold War, and it is conceivable that a submarine surfaced to deploy powered drones or balloons with radar reflectors. Perhaps the Viktor Leonov was on the scene to help collect data generated when the provocative objects were spotted by befuddled U.S. pilots and radar operators.
Cheap, expendable balloons could also explain the shape of some of the UAPs reported, as well as the glimpse of one seemingly dropping into the waves. Sub-launched spy balloons have been around since at least 1959, when the CIA dabbled with the trick, but no comparable, modern balloon program is known to exist in the U.S. or elsewhere. The U.S. Navy is, however, outfitting submarines with powered drones like AeroVironment’s Blackwing—a small winged drone equipped with a sensor suite—and other nations are surely following suit.
However, balloons don’t accelerate to high speeds or make sharp turns, and Tic-Tac, Gimbal, and Go-Fast appeared to lack flight control surfaces that would allow for high-speed maneuvers, such as wings or a tail. The objects also had no visible exhaust, even when seen in infrared. Drone technology in 2004 and even 2015 was nowhere near as evolved as it is now, and even the known experimental craft of today would have an impossible time replicating some of the UAPs’ feats. During the 2004 incident, for example, Fravor says he saw the Tic-Tac accelerate so quickly that his eye couldn’t follow it. Radar logs on the U.S.S. Princeton seemed to back up the claim, spotting the UAP 60 miles away from Fravor’s jet just seconds after he saw it pull away from him.
The radar returns recorded by military ships and warplanes should provide the most reliable data about what was in the air during these encounters, but the mystery only deepens when such data is considered. During the 2015 Gimbal incident, for example, Navy pilots remarked that the radar picked up a “whole fleet” of UAPs, which seemed to merge, vanish, and do impossible aerial feats. It’s a detail that chills the blood of practitioners of a shadowy art known as electronic warfare.
Secret World of the Crows
There is an ongoing, invisible cat-and-mouse game between designers of U.S. weapon systems and those made by Russia and China. In places like Syria, Taiwan, and Ukraine, military specialists, nicknamed crows, vie for dominance over the electromagnetic spectrum. “Over time, the sensors on an aircraft or a missile get more and more sophisticated,” says Mike Meaney, Northrop Grumman’s vice president of Land and Maritime Sensors. “On the flip side, usually within short order, they have new and different ways to spoof or fool those sensors to make them think something’s happening that really isn’t.”
When radar operators receive returns showing things that are impossible—like extremely fast-moving objects and vanishing swarms of aircraft—electronic warfare is the first thing a crow considers. “If I see one enemy plane, and all of a sudden it becomes 20 planes in my display—I’m being spoofed,” Meany says. Such funhouse mirror tricks are useful for avoiding anti-aircraft weapons, which often initially rely on radar to track targets.
Spoofing sounds a lot like what happened in the Gimbal encounters, and the DNI report addresses the possibility. “UAP reportedly appeared to exhibit unusual flight characteristics,” it states. “These observations could be the result of sensor errors, spoofing, or observer misperception and require additional rigorous analysis.” But if spoofing was involved, it would be very advanced tech for 2015. “That’s really the higher level of electronic warfare,” Meany notes.
If the Russian spy ship in Cuba was part of an intelligence gathering operation using covert tools of electronic warfare, that would mean the Kremlin unveiled a potentially sensitive system that would be more valuable as a surprise during an actual conflict. There are vast military ranges in Russia and China where sensitive systems can be tested without tipping their hand—just as there are within the United States. Meaney says a cardinal rule in electronic warfare is: The less shown, the better. “As far as the cat-and-mouse goes, all sides are very careful in what they show and when they show it,” he says. “We don’t show it until we need it, and it’s been that way for five decades.”
Even if spoofing can explain some of the strange things seen on radar screens, it can’t explain what pilots saw with their own eyes, or the objects captured on video. Perhaps a combination of physical objects and electronic warfare is responsible for some of the UAP incidents, but no one seems to be able to put all the puzzle pieces together in a way that makes sense. “For years, the men and women we trust to defend our country reported encounters with unidentified aircraft that had superior capabilities, and for years their concerns were often ignored and ridiculed,” Rubio said in a statement Friday. “This report is an important first step in cataloging these incidents, but it is just a first step before we can actually understand whether these aerial threats present a serious national security concern.”
An Enduring Mystery
Last year, when the Pentagon initially confirmed the leaked UAP incidents were indeed encounters with unidentified objects, the witnesses involved in the sightings went from the fringe to the mainstream. The frank admissions “kind of made me and my shipmates the most well-sought-after UFO experiencers,” Voorhis says. “Because of the simple fact that the U.S. government said: Yeah, these are unknowns. These are all legit.” The DNI report’s ambiguity will do little to satisfy ufologists or anyone else looking for explanations. “The limited amount of high-quality reporting on unidentified aerial phenomena (UAP) hampers our ability to draw firm conclusions about the nature or intent of UAP,” it states.
But in 2004, Dietrich says, the personal and professional stigma of reporting UFOs cost the Navy an opportunity to get more answers. “I get pissed because if it wasn’t ours, then why didn’t we take advantage of the fact that we had eyeballs on?” she says. “We had FLIR [forward looking infrared cameras] on it. We knew we could intercept it in multiple ways. Why didn't we … redirect our attention and our assets and our sensors into that airspace and get more evidence?”
Since that encounter, discussions around unidentified flying objects at the Pentagon have completely changed. New protocols encourage personnel to report sightings, and military leaders are taking these reports seriously. “The stigma is gone,” House Intelligence Committee member Mike Quigley told reporters after receiving a classified briefing on the DNI report. “Now that’s as big a change in policy as I’ve witnessed about this issue in my lifetime.”
Dietrich retired from the Navy as a lieutenant commander in May 2021, having taught as an ethics professor at the United States Naval Academy in Maryland for more than six years. Just before retiring, she went on the record for the first time, identifying herself as a UAP witness. She wants to end the stigma of pilots reporting strange things in the sky, still disquieted by the fact that whatever she saw remains unexplained.“I think that is one of the underpinning serious questions,” Dietrich says. “If we know it’s out there, and it’s not ours, we are not left with a lot of options that are positive.”
Voorhis is seeking his own answers, planning on mounting sky-facing cameras on Catalina Island to search for the UAPs he encountered near there in 2004. He’ll join the rest of the public, politicians, crows, military officials, and fellow witnesses who are all on the same boat, looking up at the sky and wondering just what’s flying around up there.
Source: https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/what-the-pentagon-report-says-about-ufos
UFO Disclosure Imminent? Leaked DoD Report Details Possibility Of Extraterrestrial ‘Form Of Mechanical Life’ Discovered On Earth
A recently leaked photo of a page from an alleged top secret Pentagon report is raising some eyebrows in the UFO community.
The document is titled ‘Section V: Behavioral Data Analysis’ and describes a bizarre joint investigation conducted by the NSA, DHS, ONI and SAP, in conjunction with the DoD.
During the investigation, these groups “conducted careful examinations of aggregated data and witness accounts” of various unidentified aerial phenomena.
See the leaked page below. A screenshot of the page was also shared on social media:
One forum user managed to transcribe the document:
Section V: Behavioral Data Analysis
Joint elements of ONI, NSA, DHS, and SAP cleared experts curated by the DoD have conducted careful examinations of aggregated data and witness accounts[1]. The scope of the referenced in this subsection refers to CERT class cases, which are in turn designated as such due to a common similarity in behavior with other high-credibility cases. As mentioned in section III, this class contains 1,292 cases and is the only class capable of receiving post-analysis treatment[2].
Behavioral Conclusions:
Data from Secondary Reference reports indicate a significant commonality in stimulus-response and lead to generalized conclusions of the nature of UA/SP cognitive processing[3][4]. Although the details differ, this body is reasonably confident that expert findings indicate some form of inorganic intelligence.
All cases where UA/SP contacts performed a reactionary behavior that was not immediate disengagement can be broadly described as displaying a sense of fear and curiosity. Some data-backed witness accounts went so far as to describe the interactions as “playful… like a puppy[5]” and “skittish but very aware, sort of like a parrot, actually.” This behavior is a primary indicator of CERT class cases and is not seen in cases that have been otherwise explained. The report[6] employed a blind study using known behavioral data processed through a customized AI, essentially reverse-engineering the thought processing using gathered stimulus/response data. A DoD computing cluster ran a virtual neural network using the engineered processing system and found that UA/SP behaviors can be reproduced with 98.4% certainty in a closed processing environment. The report concluded that the behaviors analyzed from such contacts exhibit AGI Strong and ASI Weak behaviors and can be reproduced with current computational systems. This report is significant as it indicates that extraneous processes found in organic life are not impacting behaviors. The elimination of these variables and the effect of maneuvers seen in Section II on chemical processes suggest that UA/SP contacts are either remote, autonomous drones or a form of mechanical life.
The Harmen-McCarren[3] report uses the “1999 Descrepancy” to suggest an update may have changed the behaviour and physical construction of UA/SPs, thus classifying them as drones deplyed by an organic species. Shibakoya[4] responds to this claim, countering that a machine intelligence may react similarly to a particular stimulus and hypothesized that the rapid increase of flight performance might indicate a stepped virtual evolution process. Likewise, Shibakoya extrapolates that the gradual shift in appearance and behavior of detected CERT cases may be an artifact of generational changes, with older models beings relegated to less involved tasks. The Harmen-McCarren and Shibakoya reports both propose that a potential…
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App. G. Sec 2: Secondary Reference Reports App. B. Sec 1b: Expenditure Tiers. App. G. Sec. 2e: M. Harmen, S. McCarren. (2018). Blackout Flower Report App. G. Sec. 2k: K. Shibakoya. (2020). Layer 3 Behavioral Assessment App. F. Sec. 4b: DoD. (1992.2017). High value Witness Interviews
App. G. Sec. 16: High Tandem. (2018.) Behavioral Simulation Study
Navy Pilot Who Filmed the ‘Tic Tac’ UFO Speaks: ‘It Wasn’t Behaving by the Normal Laws of Physics’
In the 15 years since Chad Underwood recorded a bizarre and erratic UFO — now called “the Tic Tac,” a name Underwood himself came up with — from the infrared camera on the left wing of his F/A-18 Super Hornet, he’s become a flight instructor, a civilian employee in the aerospace industry, and a father. But he has not yet spoken publicly about what he saw that day, even now, two years after his video made the front page of the New York Times. As he explained before speaking with Intelligencer, Underwood has mostly wanted to avoid having his name “attached to the ‘little green men’ crazies that are out there.”
The story of the Tic Tac begins around November 10, 2004, when radar operator Kevin Day first reported seeing odd and slow-moving objects flying in groups of five to ten off of San Clemente Island, west of the San Diego coast. At an elevation of 28,000 feet, moving at a speed of approximately 120 knots (about 138 miles per hour), the clusters were too high to be birds, too slow to be conventional aircraft, and were not traveling on any established flight path, at least according to Day.
In a military report made public by KLAS-TV in Las Vegas, another crew member with 17 years of experience on similar cruisers would later observe that the objects “exhibited ballistic-missile characteristics” as they zoomed from 60,000 feet to 50 feet above the Pacific Ocean, alarmingly without producing sonic booms. All told, radar operators with the Princeton spent about two weeks attempting to figure out what the objects were, a process that included having the ship’s radar system shut down and recalibrated to make sure that the mysterious radar returns were not not false positives, or “ghost tracks.”
Eventually, David Fravor, commanding officer of the Black Aces, made visual confirmation of one of the objects midair during a flight-training exercise. An hour later, Underwood made his infrared recording on a second flight. “That day,” Underwood recalls, “Dave Fravor was like, ‘Hey, dude. BOLO.’ Like, be on the lookout for just something weird. I can’t remember the exact terms that he used. I didn’t really think much about it at the time. But once I was able to acquire it on the radar and on the FLIR [forward-looking infrared camera], that’s kind of where things — I wouldn’t say ‘went sideways’ — but things were just different.”
The footage appears to depict what Fravor had identified as a 40-foot-long, white, oblong shape (hence “Tic Tac”), hovering somewhere between 15,000 and 24,000 feet in midair and exhibiting no notable exhaust from conventional propulsion sources, even as it makes a surprising dart leftward in the video’s final moments. Of the three UFO incidents captured by U.S. Navy airmen via infrared gun-camera pods, Underwood’s footage remains unique for its lack of cross talk between the pilots — a fact that has led to some speculation about its authenticity. But “there wasn’t anything on it that was protected,” Underwood’s retired former commanding officer Dave Fravor told Intelligencer. The missing audio, he says, “just didn’t make the copy that was taken from the storage drive.”
A former fighter pilot who served on the Nimitz in 2004, who spoke to Intelligencer on condition of anonymity, recalled an exhilarating group screening of the FLIR1 video inside the Nimitz’s Carrier Vehicle Intelligence Center (CVIC): “Debriefs were usually pro forma in the CVIC, but this one in particular was so odd,” the former pilot said. “There weren’t really a lot of skeptics in that room.” Years later, Fravor told ABC News that he didn’t know what the Tic Tac was, but that “it was really impressive, really fast, and I would like to fly it.” In the CVIC that day, the anonymous pilot told Intelligencer, “We all had that. We all wanted to fly it.”
Of the many people to have spotted or recorded the objects, a handful, like Fravor or Princeton’s (retired) Chief Master-at-Arms Sean Cahill, who reported seeing what appeared to be another grouping of the objects from the missile cruiser’s deck, have spoken to journalists or documentarians. Others have not: Lieutenant Colonel “Cheeks” Kurth, a Marine Hornet squadron commanding officer who was also asked to intercept the Tic Tac, still has not done an on-the-record interview. (Three years after the sighting, however, Kurth did take a job as a program manager at Bigelow Advanced Aerospace Space Studies in Las Vegas, whose owner Robert Bigelow has been a well-known private funder of UFO and paranormal research for decades. It was during this same period that Bigelow became a military contractor working on the Pentagon’s once-secret UFO investigation program, the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program.)
Underwood now joins Fravor, Cahill, and others, in speaking about his experience with the Tic Tac. This conversation has been condensed and edited for clarity.
What did you think of Dave Fravor’s appearance on the Joe Rogan Experience?
I’m glad Dave went on Joe’s show. He nailed every detail. At the time of the incident, he was essentially my boss, my commanding officer. I was just a pilot in his squadron. Are you familiar at all with how aircraft-carrier air operations work?
Probably not.
So, usually, we fly for about an hour, hour and a half, and then land. Then there’s the next wave of folks that take off and do their mission, blah, blah, blah. That day, Dave Fravor was landing at the same time I was getting my gear on, and we crossed paths just after he’d seen it. I really don’t want to get into what Dave saw, specificallyTo summarize Fravor’s eyewitness account to the New York Times, the pilot reported seeing a large submerged object that was causing the ocean to churn. Hovering about 50 feet above that churn, the 40-foot Tic Tac zipped erratically around the submerged object. Fravor observed the Tic Tac as he banked his F/A-18 in a spiral descent to get a closer look. As he told the Times, the Tic Tac “accelerated like nothing I’ve ever seen” and left him “pretty weirded out.” , because I didn’t see it with my own eyeballs. But I told him, “The Princeton” — again, which has got a really good sophisticated radar — “is reporting that there’s an object out there that they wanted us to see if we could find and, if we’re able, track.”
So, we go out to where our designated training area is. We’re not necessarily looking for something, but the Princeton had a specific object that they wanted us to hunt, for lack of a better word. And all of a sudden, I got this blip on my radar.
The “Tic Tac.”
The term “Tic Tac,” I actually coined that. So, any time you heard the term, “It looked like a ‘Tic Tac’ out there in the sky,” I was the one that kind of coined that.
Was that named based on what you saw with your own eyes, or from looking at the screen on the camera?
No. I was more concentrated on looking at the FLIRAdvanced Targeting Forward Looking Infrared (ATFLIR) is an optical electric- and thermal-imaging system that was developed for U.S. Navy pilots by Raytheon in the late 1990s, mainly for the detection and identification of tactical targets and the delivery of autonomous precision targeting to smart weapons. In the mid-2000s, as well as today, ATFLIR was capable of detecting and tracking targets within a range of 40 nautical miles. . It was inside of 20 miles. You’re not going to see it with your own eyes until probably 10 miles, and then you’re not going to be able to visually track it until you’re probably inside of five miles, which is where Dave Fravor said that he saw it. So, at that point I didn’t see anything with my eyeballs. I was more concerned with tracking it, making sure that the videotape was on so that I could bring something back to the ship, so that the intel folks could dissect whatever it is that I captured.
The thing that stood out to me the most was how erratic it was behaving. And what I mean by “erratic” is that its changes in altitude, air speed, and aspect were just unlike things that I’ve ever encountered before flying against other air targets. It was just behaving in ways that aren’t physically normal. That’s what caught my eye. Because, aircraft, whether they’re manned or unmanned, still have to obey the laws of physics. They have to have some source of lift, some source of propulsion. The Tic Tac was not doing that. It was going from like 50,000 feet to, you know, a hundred feet in like seconds, which is not possible.
And it was doing that during your engagement too?
Yes. That was the thing that was the most interesting to me: how erratic this thing wasJim Gillingham, an engineering consultant who worked on ATFLIR for Raytheon, suggested in an interview with Intelligencer that “if there were several things in the sky to look at, but none were quite where the pilot was trying to look,” it might produce erratic results, a glitch he’d experienced using the ATFLIR to track planes from the ground during development testing. “We ran into this when trying to get a lock and there were two aircraft climbing out. (LAX has four parallel runways). Sometimes the image would switch back and forth vigorously until we took steps to bias the lock some way.” . If it was obeying physics like a normal object that you would encounter in the sky — an aircraft, or a cruise missile, or some sort of special project that the government didn’t tell you about — that would have made more sense to me. The part that drew our attention was how it wasn’t behaving within the normal laws of physics. You’re up there flying, like, “Okay. It’s not behaving in a manner that’s predictable or is normal by how flying objects physically move.”
From looking at the video at the time and more recently, do you get a sense as to how much heat this thing was giving off?
Well, normally, you would see engines emitting a heat plume. This object was not doing that. The video shows a source of heat, but the normal signatures of an exhaust plume were not there. There was no sign of propulsion. You could not see the thing that the ATFLIR pod should pick up 100 percent of the time: the source of heat and exhaust that a normal object flying would give youFormer Navy F/A-18 fighter pilot Vincent “Jell-O” Aiello expressed a similar reaction to the object in the FLIR1 video during a telephone interview. “Where it looks different to me is that it has no wings like an aircraft, and there’s no perceptible heat signature from the engines or from intakes like an aircraft,” he said. “If you’re close enough to an actual aircraft and you’re tracking it, you can see heat spots at different places either leading edges of wings, where it’s hotter because of friction, or exhaust ports from where bleed air comes out, and, of course, the actual exhaust of the engines themselves.” . Does that make sense?
Yeah, it does.
Like, no method of propulsion or exhaust — and the exhaust part of it was the thing that kind of made me raise my eyebrows and be like, “Okay, this is interesting.”
Were you approaching the Tic Tac head-on? Some people have suggestedThe main source for this theory is a longtime contributor to the Skeptical Inquirer, retired Air Force Major James McGaha, whose primary flight experience, per his bio with the skeptic’s group, is with large C-130 military transport aircraft. Not fighter jets, in other words, nor their instruments. that the Tic Tac’s rapid leftward movement toward the end of the video was actually the result of your F/A-18 banking to the right and dragging the camera along with it.
We were pointed nose-on to it. Maybe 10 to 20 degrees of azimuthAzimuth is a horizontal angular measurement between a fixed direction, which in this flight navigation case is straight-ahead of the aircraft, and an object or location. In aviation, azimuth is paired with a vertical angular measurement called altitude, which should not be confused with the more common use of the word as a synonym for elevation. , either left or right.
Ergo, when the object kind of darts away to the left—
I was not aggressively maneuvering the aircraft in the manner that would make the FLIR pod would do thatUnderwood’s recollections on this were corroborated by Steven T. Cummings, a former technical director for Raytheon Integrated Defense Systems who worked on ATFLIR in its R&D phase and reviewed the FLIR1 video for this story. That said, Cummings made a point of adding that he will remain skeptical about most of the Nimitz UFO witness’ accounts until the military releases more electronic data from the incident. . But look: At that point, I did not actually see the object aggressively accelerate to the left, as the video shows, to actually prove that.
Because you were at a distance where you couldn’t make visual contact with your own eyes—
Right.
And so what’s happening in the video is a little ambiguous as a result.
Right. Yeah. And that part kind of sucks, because I can’t confirm that the object aggressively accelerated that way. But I have my feelings, based off of my experience with my equipment — and also just logic, when it comes to, you know, physics.
I want to ask you some questions based on theories that America’s armchair skeptics have put forward — like whether it was birds, or whether it was some sort of thermal weather event. I mean, I’m sure you have had enough flight time that you’ve seen birds.
Yup. Birds normally fly close to the surface of the ground. So, for example, you’re not going to see birds flying at 5,000 feet. You’re going to see them more down at like 2,000 feet and below, like down to the surface. That’s just kind of how birds normally operate. And they’re typically not alone. So you can you can physically see them, in a flock or whatever. You don’t see birds at 5,000 or 10,000 or 20,000 feet. That’s just not how birds operate. So birds are out of the question.
And just so that I anticipate your next question: There are weather balloons that people launch, but this was not a weather balloon — because a balloon, it just ascends and floats from low to high altitude; it doesn’t behave erratically. I mean, it’s just a damn balloon. So that was out of the question.
It wasn’t — to the best of my knowledge — a cruise missile or any other kind of test aircraft that we possibly may have not known about, just because of the way it was behaving. Like I said, it was just very erratic. It would go from like 50 feet off the ground, which when you’re out in the open ocean, you know, off the coast of San Diego, it looked like it was just hovering over the water. But there was no method of propulsion that was keeping it airborne: no wings, no heat, keeping it airborne or aloft.
Have you ever seen a weather event on an ATFLIR?
I would say if I captured this object on my sensors independently, like I was the only one that saw it or tracked it, I might have blown it off as something like a weather event. But the amount of people and sensors from other independent sources who found it — given the time period Dave Fravor saw it, and an hour and a half later I went out and saw it, and we captured basically an object with the same description — leads me to believe that a weather event would be unlikely.
Did it surprise you or provide any kind of relief seeing the Navy officially declare the Tic Tac video genuineBefore the New York Times vetted and published the FLIR1 video, the short clip floated around samizdat-style on various online UFO forums, a situation that had led skeptics and “galaxy brain” conspiracy theorists to suspect that the video was a hoax perpetrated by the first known group to host the video on its servers, a German 3-D animation company called Vision Unlimited. In an interview with a German paranormal-news website, Vision Unlimited manager Philip Schneider said the video was not its work product, but could not explain why its servers were hosting it all the way back in 2007. and a genuine UAP when that happened in the Washington Post last September?
No, not surprised. Validation for sure.
This might be a good time to talk about what the mood was on the Nimitz after all of this.
Once I landed, I saw one of my buddies from my sister squadron. He said, “Hey, did you see something out there too?,” in a very jokey manner. And I was like, “Actually, MFer, because I know you want to make fun of me, I got it here on video.” Although, I didn’t say “MFer.” I said the actual term. He’s a good friend of mine, so it was in jest. We pop the tapes into the playback machine. I’m like, “Here, this is where it is.” Those little video cutsIn a podcast interview earlier this year, Sean Cahill (Princeton’s Chief-Master-at-Arms) recalled that the name of this shortened FLIR1 video, the only version that the public has seen, was named “14November_condensed or something like that.” As Cahill told the podcast’s host, Alejandro Rojas, the video file was shared widely by crew members of the Nimitz and the Princeton using the carrier group’s low-bandwidth, circa 2004 Secret Internet Protocol Router Network (SIPRNet), before much later being published by the New York Times in December 2017. — that you see of my FLIR recording — were taken there at the intelligence center. What they do with it from there, I don’t have a whole lot to deal with.
When I was still in my flight gear, so probably within about 20 minutes or so, I spoke to someone that I assume was from NORAD. I described it exactly as I just told you. I didn’t get debriefed. The interesting thing was, normally, if you see something out in the middle of the ocean that’s a test project, we would get debriefed on it, one-on-one, in a dark room. Whether it’s from the folks at Edwards test siteSince the end of World War II, Edwards Air Force Base has been one of the premiere testing sites for new U.S. military aircraft, and later home to NASA’s Armstrong Flight Research Center for the testing of advanced spacecraft. Naturally, Edwards has been a perennial subject of American UFO lore — including an extended October 7, 1965 sighting in which base personnel struggled for over five hours to identify a series of mystery objects invading their airspace. Some fun, less intuitive trivia: The base also has its own folklore about a desert Bigfoot creature they call Yucca Man. or something like that. “Hey, yes, we were testing a project. This is what you saw.” Without going into great detail, it will be like, “Yes. This is project ‘Umptysquat’” and, basically, “This is what you saw. Don’t talk about it.” That never happened, which leads me to think that it was not a government projectA former fighter pilot currently working with the Tailhook Association, who spoke on condition of anonymity, corroborated this idea that the lack of a formal debrief for Underwood describing a top-secret aircraft would be suggestive of something more unusual than a classified test-flight program. .
Or, at least, not one—
Not one that they wanted to give any acknowledgment of. And, you know, I’ve got top-secret clearance with a ton of special-project clearances. So, it’s not like I wasn’t cleared to know. But, as I’m sure you’ve found in your research, to have clearance to know something, you have to have both the clearance that it’s elevated to and you have to have the “need to know” it. And, clearly, whatever it was, if it was a government project, I did not need to know.
Yeah. Understood. Here’s something I’m curious about, because of this NORAD aspect: Did it come up that this telephone debriefing was maybe involved with something called an Operations Event Incident Report or NORAD’s OPREP-3 reporting system?Documents made public via the Freedom of Information Act, alongside other government documents including “Air Force Instruction 10–206 Operational Reporting” (AFI 10–206) published by the Secretary of the United States Air Force (SEC–USAF) on October 15th, 2008, have indicated that a US military–wide secured reporting channel dubbed OPREP-3 for “operational report category 3 Event/Incident” have become a primary means of delivering realtime information on UFO incidents up the national security chain of command, from the service members tracking the object up through to the White House. Documents released via FOIA have shown the OPREP-3 channel used to deliver information about a spate of Oct, 30th, 1975, UFO events at Wurtsmith Air Force Base in Michigan, and overlapping sightings at Loring Air Force Base in Maine, among others.
Honestly, Matt, I have no idea. Like like what level up to who I was talking to. I just wanted to answer them. I was just basically handed a telephone and said, “Hey. Answer these questions.”
Fair enough. So, Between talking to the NORAD guy and Fravor going public, there’s a several-year period where this is just like a thing that happened in your life. Did it come up very often at all?
There would be associations. I would be sitting at lunch five years later with some of my colleagues. Rumors tend to have legs. “Hey, you were out on the Nimitz in ’04. Someone told me about some alien spacecraft.” And I’m like, “Well, (1) the video that you see is my video. And no, I’ve never said that this is what I think it was or speculate as to what I think it was. That’s not my job. But I saw something. And it was also seen, via eyeballs, by both my commanding officer, Dave Fravor, and the Marine Corps Hornet squadron commanding officer who was out there as well.
When did you find out Fravor was going to go public? Did a lot of people approach you during that reporting or afterward?
It’s funny, seeing your boss’s name and face on the news, given what he was putting out there. You know, obviously, our encounter happened in 2004 — so a while back — but everything that Dave has put out there in the interviews is absolutely, 100 percent, exactly what happened on that day. And we’re still good friends to this day, so I started texting him. We had about a two-hour-long phone call and I’d be like, “Dude. Like what made this pop up?” Like, “Where was this like, you know, 12, 14 years ago?” Now it’s 15 years ago. And, I guess, that was when the Pentagon released — whatever project they called it. I can’t even remember it.
AATIP.
Yeah. AATIPThe Pentagon’s Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program (AATIP) ostensibly ran from 2007 to 2012 with a budget of about $22 million. It was preceded by, and may have overlapped with, another Defense Intelligence Agency program, dubbed the Advanced Aerospace Weapon System Applications Program (AAWSAP), with a wider and weirder purview that included “dark energy and the manipulation of extra dimensions.” In October 2017, New York Times reporter Ralph Blumenthal and longtime UFO researcher Leslie Kean met with a former employee of the Office of the Under Secretary of Defense for Intelligence (OUSDI), Luis Elizondo, who had been involved with AATIP — and depending on which reporters and low-level Pentagon spokespeople you care to trust, may have led the program. Working with several other individuals from the U.S. military and intelligence world, and however improbably with Blink-182 front man Tom DeLonge, Elizondo and the Times brought news of AATIP — and with it, David Fravor’s account of the Tic Tac — to the public that December. The extent of the Pentagon’s official involvement declassifying this material is unfortunately still one of the more frustrating, unresolved, and contentious aspects of this story two years later. .
Did the New York Times reach out to you? Ask for background just to confirm anything?
No.
Interesting.
Not that I really care. At no point did I want to speculate as to what I thought this thing was — or be associated with, you know, “alien beings” and “alien aircraft” and all that stuff. I’m like, “No. I do not want to be part of that community.” It is just what we call a UFO. I couldn’t identify it. It was flying. And it was an object. It’s as simple as that.
Yeah.
I’ll let the nerds, like, do the math on what it was likely to be. I just happened to be the person that brought back the video.
This story originally identified the man who quoted in the military’s report as reporting that the objects “exhibited ballistic-missile characteristics” as Kevin Day. The identity of this man has not yet been publicly reported. We regret the error.
To summarize Fravor’s eyewitness account to the New York Times, the pilot reported seeing a large submerged object that was causing the ocean to churn. Hovering about 50 feet above that churn, the 40-foot Tic Tac zipped erratically around the submerged object. Fravor observed the Tic Tac as he banked his F/A-18 in a spiral descent to get a closer look. As he told the Times, the Tic Tac “accelerated like nothing I’ve ever seen” and left him “pretty weirded out.” Advanced Targeting Forward Looking Infrared (ATFLIR) is an optical electric- and thermal-imaging system that was developed for U.S. Navy pilots by Raytheon in the late 1990s, mainly for the detection and identification of tactical targets and the delivery of autonomous precision targeting to smart weapons. In the mid-2000s, as well as today,
ATFLIR was capable of detecting and tracking targets within a range of 40 nautical miles. Jim Gillingham, an engineering consultant who worked on ATFLIR for Raytheon, suggested in an interview with Intelligencer that “if there were several things in the sky to look at, but none were quite where the pilot was trying to look,” it might produce erratic results, a glitch he’d experienced using the ATFLIR to track planes from the ground during development testing. “We ran into this when trying to get a lock and there were two aircraft climbing out. (LAX has four parallel runways). Sometimes the image would switch back and forth vigorously until we took steps to bias the lock some way.”
Former Navy F/A-18 fighter pilot Vincent “Jell-O” Aiello expressed a similar reaction to the object in the FLIR1 video during a telephone interview. “Where it looks different to me is that it has no wings like an aircraft, and there’s no perceptible heat signature from the engines or from intakes like an aircraft,” he said. “If you’re close enough to an actual aircraft and you’re tracking it, you can see heat spots at different places either leading edges of wings, where it’s hotter because of friction, or exhaust ports from where bleed air comes out, and, of course, the actual exhaust of the engines themselves.” The main source for this theory is a longtime contributor to the Skeptical Inquirer, retired Air Force Major James McGaha, whose primary flight experience, per his bio with the skeptic’s group, is with large C-130 military transport aircraft. Not fighter jets, in other words, nor their instruments. Azimuth is a horizontal angular measurement between a fixed direction, which in this flight navigation case is straight-ahead of the aircraft, and an object or location.
In aviation, azimuth is paired with a vertical angular measurement called altitude, which should not be confused with the more common use of the word as a synonym for elevation. Underwood’s recollections on this were corroborated by Steven T. Cummings, a former technical director for Raytheon Integrated Defense Systems who worked on ATFLIR in its R&D phase and reviewed the FLIR1 video for this story. That said, Cummings made a point of adding that he will remain skeptical about most of the Nimitz UFO witness’ accounts until the military releases more electronic data from the incident. Before the New York Times vetted and published the FLIR1 video, the short clip floated around samizdat-style on various online UFO forums, a situation that had led skeptics and “galaxy brain” conspiracy theorists to suspect that the video was a hoax perpetrated by the first known group to host the video on its servers, a German 3-D animation company called Vision Unlimited. In an interview with a German paranormal-news website, Vision Unlimited manager Philip Schneider said the video was not its work product, but could not explain why its servers were hosting it all the way back in 2007.
In a podcast interview earlier this year, Sean Cahill (Princeton’s Chief-Master-at-Arms) recalled that the name of this shortened FLIR1 video, the only version that the public has seen, was named “14November_condensed or something like that.” As Cahill told the podcast’s host, Alejandro Rojas, the video file was shared widely by crew members of the Nimitz and the Princeton using the carrier group’s low-bandwidth, circa 2004 Secret Internet Protocol Router Network (SIPRNet), before much later being published by the New York Times in December 2017. Since the end of World War II, Edwards Air Force Base has been one of the premiere testing sites for new U.S. military aircraft, and later home to NASA’s Armstrong Flight Research Center for the testing of advanced spacecraft. Naturally, Edwards has been a perennial subject of American UFO lore — including an extended October 7, 1965 sighting in which base personnel struggled for over five hours to identify a series of mystery objects invading their airspace. Some fun, less intuitive trivia: The base also has its own folklore about a desert Bigfoot creature they call Yucca Man.
A former fighter pilot currently working with the Tailhook Association, who spoke on condition of anonymity, corroborated this idea that the lack of a formal debrief for Underwood describing a top-secret aircraft would be suggestive of something more unusual than a classified test-flight program. Documents made public via the Freedom of Information Act, alongside other government documents including “Air Force Instruction 10–206 Operational Reporting” (AFI 10–206) published by the Secretary of the United States Air Force (SEC–USAF) on October 15th, 2008, have indicated that a US military–wide secured reporting channel dubbed OPREP-3 for “operational report category 3 Event/Incident” have become a primary means of delivering realtime information on UFO incidents up the national security chain of command, from the service members tracking the object up through to the White House. Documents released via FOIA have shown the OPREP-3 channel used to deliver information about a spate of Oct, 30th, 1975, UFO events at Wurtsmith Air Force Base in Michigan, and overlapping sightings at Loring Air Force Base in Maine, among others.
The Pentagon’s Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program (AATIP) ostensibly ran from 2007 to 2012 with a budget of about $22 million. It was preceded by, and may have overlapped with, another Defense Intelligence Agency program, dubbed the Advanced Aerospace Weapon System Applications Program (AAWSAP), with a wider and weirder purview that included “dark energy and the manipulation of extra dimensions.” In October 2017, New York Times reporter Ralph Blumenthal and longtime UFO researcher Leslie Kean met with a former employee of the Office of the Under Secretary of Defense for Intelligence (OUSDI), Luis Elizondo, who had been involved with AATIP — and depending on which reporters and low-level Pentagon spokespeople you care to trust, may have led the program. Working with several other individuals from the U.S. military and intelligence world, and however improbably with Blink-182 front man Tom DeLonge, Elizondo and the Times brought news of AATIP — and with it, David Fravor’s account of the Tic Tac — to the public that December. The extent of the Pentagon’s official involvement declassifying this material is unfortunately still one of the more frustrating, unresolved, and contentious aspects of this story two years later.
Hunt for Pentagon’s infamous ‘Black Triangle’ UFO photo after fighter pilot ‘snapped mystery craft rising out of ocean’
THE PENTAGON allegedly has in its possession an incredible clear photo of a "Black Triangle" UFO spectacularly rising out of the ocean. Ever since the photo's alleged existence was first reported in late 2020, UFO enthusiasts have been begging for its release.
It is thought to be one of the most compelling UFO sightings ever captured on camera because it was reportedly snapped by a US Navy pilot flying an F/A-18F Super Hornet. The photo's existence has never been officially confirmed by the Pentagon - but many state it exists, and say they have been told as much by government insiders.
The Sun Online understands the photo is highly classified because it was captured using military equipment on board the fighter plane. For many UFO sleuths it has become one of the Holy Grails - a picture that would leave no doubt in the minds of sceptics about the reality of the mysterious phenomena. Pentagon officials reportedly have the "extremely clear" photo in their possession as it was reportedly circulated last year in an intelligence report by the Unidentified Aerial Phenomena (UAP) Task Force.
It was allegedly taken by a pilot in 2019 who spotted the craft as it emerged from the ocean and began to rise straight upwards, first reported The Debrief. The object was described as a large triangle with "blunted" edges and spherical white "lights" on each corner - and the encounter is said to have occurred off the East Coast of the US. Pilots who encountered the object are believed to have been operating from either the USS Dwight D. Eisenhower or the USS John C. Stennis. Both of which are Nimitz-class nuclear-powered supercarriers - further deepening the apparent links between UFOs and man's nuclear capabilities. It could be a key piece of evidence, demonstrating that we are truly in the presence of some other intelligence.
Tom Rogan, the national security writer for the Washington Examiner, backed the existence of the stunning photo after verifying it with his sources. He told The Sun Online: "It’s the tip of the iceberg. But we will see more leaks of UAP imagery and data in the coming years. "The Pentagon should get ahead of the curve and officially release more material." The file containing the photo was reportedly circulated on NSANet - the US National Security Agency's official intranet - to which Britain and other Five Eyes intelligence alliance nations are believed to have access.
"BLACK Triangles" have been a common part of the UFO phenomena since the first wave of sightings back in the 1940s. As their name suggests, the objects appear floating in the sky as dark triangular shapes often peppered with lights. Some of the triangles have been described as up to 120 metres long and they appear to move noiselessly without any contrails.The triangles are part of a host of weird and wonderful UFO shapes - going from saucers, to spheres, to the infamous "Tic Tacs".
David Marler, UFO researcher and author of Triangular UFOs: An Estimate of the Situation, told the HISTORY he has up to 17,000 cases files on the phenomena. He suggested the slow movement of the shapes could suggest "surveillance" or perhaps even scanning the landscape. And in one of the most stunning encounters, it is reported in March 1990 two F-16 fighter jets in Belgium encountered a "Black Triangle". It was said the shape accelerated away at 1,120mph within seconds - a manoeuvre that "exceeded the limits of conventional aviation", according to the air force.
British military UFO investigation Project Condign - which ran from 1997 to 2000 - makes mention of the shapes, but dismisses them as similar phenomena to ball lightning. But if the existence of the Pentagon photo and the accounts of the 2019 East Coast encounter are true - it seems there is more to the triangles than a bizarre atmospheric disturbance.Some have also speculated sightings of "Black Triangles" could be mis-identification for military aircraft using the flying wing design - such as Lockheed F-117 Nighthawk or B-2 Spirit. Or the sightings could perhaps be more speculative and experimental craft, such as the rumoured TR-3A Black Manta or the Aurora.Once again however - this does not explain the potential sighting in the Atlantic allegedly photographed by the US Navy pilot in 2019.
So-called "Black Triangle" sightings have been recorded for decades - including by the military - but often have been dismissed as secret aircraft or atmospheric anomalies. And this alleged sighting and photo further raises questions over the links between UFOs and the ocean, with the Pentagon said to be probing the "transmedium" element of the phenomena. "Transmedium" is the apparent ability of some UAPs to transit seamlessly between the air and the ocean. Some have speculated UFOs may actually come from beneath the ocean - and numerous videos show the unusual ways they interact with the water. Reports of incredible images being circulated in classified government documents just add the intrigue surrounding the upcoming UAP Task Force report which was ordered by US lawmakers.
The unprecedented dossier's deadline is now just days away, and it is reportedly set to not rule out an alien origin for UFOs. Dismissed as a conspiracy theory for decades, former US defence officials, sitting politicians, and former presidents Barack Obama and Bill Clinton have all acknowledged there is something unusual going on in our skies. Luis Elizondo, who headed up the secretive Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program (AATIP) for the Pentagon, was recently also recently quizzed on the photo.
The intelligence officer resigned his post as he sought to bring the discussion about the UFOs into the mainstream, describing them as a "national security issue".
Quizzed on the Disclosure Team channel on YouTube bout whether he had seen the infamous image, Mr Elizondo replied: "I can't discuss that." He added with a smile: "Great question". The insider's decision to neither confirm or deny the existence of the photo has only fuelled the enthusiasm and speculation surrounding the alleged picture.
Highly Classified
Andy McGrillen, from UAP Media UK, a team set up to campaign for a more open and serious discussion on UFOs in Britain, told The Sun Online: "The much talked about Black Triangle picture is one that has had much of the community excited for some time. "Recently I have been informed that the photo is of a craft that was initially tracked underwater then emerged, climbing to an altitude of 35-40,000 feet when an aircraft’s onboard systems took a high fidelity image. "The triangular object was reported as having rounded edges, with lights on each of its corners. There were no obvious signs of propulsion. "Something like this will surely be highly classified given the nature of the equipment taking the picture. "However, if it did make its way into the public domain it could be a key piece of evidence, demonstrating that we are truly in the presence of some other intelligence."
UFOS have stepped from fringe conspiracy theories to a genuine national security debate in the US. Pentagon officials last year took the unprecedented step to confirm a trio of remarkable videos which showed US encounters with UFOs. The debate is still open as to what the phenomena caught on film were – but it made clear to everyone, something is in the skies. Perhaps the most striking was a video known as the “Tic Tac” – which showed an unidentified object being pursued by fighter planes.The US also confirmed the existence of the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program (AATIP) – a Pentagon programme set up to study UFOs before being disbanded in 2017.However, it was replaced by the UAP Task Force in June 2020 after a vote by the US Senate Intelligence Committee. Defence chiefs have since confirmed a number of leaked UFO videos and photos which were submitted to the Task Force for investigation.
Why this sudden rush for transparency? No outside the secretive wings of the US government currently knows for sure. And as a tacked on addendum to a 5,500 page Covid relief bill passed in December, the the Director of National Intelligence’s office was ordered to compile a report on UFOs within 180 days. Former intelligence director John Ratcliffe has hinted the report will be a big deal – and we now just over a month away from its release. The five month deadline elapses on in June, with some UFO lobbyists claiming it could be the “most profound moment in human history".
US intelligence services officially closed the book on the UFO phenomena in 1969 at the conclusion Project Blue Book - which stated there was nothing to see. However, in the last three years there has been an abrupt turnaround as the Pentagon took the unprecedented step of confirming three stunning leaked UFO videos filmed by the US Navy. And the UFO report - which was commissioned by Congress - is being compiled by the UAP Task Force, who were given a 180 day deadline in December which is due to expire tomorrow. Competing theories on the strange videos continue to rage – with some grounded on Earth claiming the videos capture never-before-seen military aircraft or drones, while others claim it shows otherworldly craft possibly piloted by aliens.
Others however are more sceptical and sometimes even dismissive, claiming the bizarre videos may just be camera tricks, natural phenomena or even outright hoaxes. Leaked videos continue to emerge its been reported the UAP Task Force are investigating over 100 encounters between the military and the unidentified objects. Emerging details on the report state that it does not confirm or rule out an alien origin for the phenomena - but US lawmakers have been talking up the issue following a classified briefing last week. The Sun Online also spoke to Tobias Ellwood MP, who suggested UFOs could be advanced drones and called on the UK to stage a similar probe to the US. Obama says new religions could spring up and US may spend more on weapons if UFO report confirms alien life
In the summer of 1947, a top-secret U.S. military balloon developed to spy on the Soviet nuclear program crashed in the desert near Roswell, N.M. The military gave only incomplete accounts of what happened, sowing decades of conspiracy theories (and a tourism industry) that built up around Roswell as the site of an alien crash landing.
Since then, Americans’ passion for alien visitation has proved tough to shake, even when the evidence is clear that no spaceships have touched down or crash landed. After the Cold War, a pair of Air Force reports that aimed to come clean about the experiments near Roswell did little to debunk any belief in the potential for aliens.
The government’s latest report on U.F.O.s, which the Pentagon now wants to call unidentified aerial phenomena, is unlikely to settle anything. Due out on Friday, the report’s expected assertion that no classified American programs exist to explain the observations will most likely be dismissed by those primed to disbelieve government pronouncements. Its failure to find affirmative evidence of alien spaceships will largely be ignored by those most passionate about theories of extraterrestrial visitation.
It will also serve as the latest in a history of efforts by the government to confront public eagerness to know more about U.F.O.s. Officials have sometimes sought to be transparent about what they know, according to documents and interviews, but in other instances allowed confusion and conspiracy theories to take root as a useful cover-up for top-secret military programs.
During the Cold War era, the public enthusiasm was a double-edged sword. While alien visitation was a helpful theory to explain away the top-secret programs developed near Roswell and in Nevada’s Area 51, where the Air Force and the C.I.A. developed reconnaissance programs intended to look deep into the Soviet Union, early C.I.A. documents show the agency worrying that the American public’s obsession with aliens in the 1950s could make the public vulnerable to Russian disinformation efforts.
In the 1950s, the C.I.A. reviewed the test flights of the U-2 reconnaissance planes and then A-12 aircraft (the predecessor of the iconic SR-71 Blackbird) in the 1960s and found that roughly half of U.F.O. sightings were attributable to those top-secret programs, said David Robarge, the chief C.I.A. historian. Responsible for answering questions, the Air Force publicly attributed those sightings to natural phenomena.
So, in a sense, the public fixation with space aliens provided a degree of cover for the C.I.A. But taking advantage of public obsession had a cost. A 1997 historical study by the C.I.A. found that while its deceptions were justified, they “added fuel to the later conspiracy theories.” “The agency’s understandable interest in concealing its role in some of the early U.F.O. investigations ultimately proved to be counterproductive, that it just fed into later charges of conspiracy and cover up,” Dr. Robarge said.
From soon after its creation, the C.I.A. has been worried about the American public’s vulnerability to Russian disinformation. C.I.A. documents also show concern about the public’s obsession with aliens in the 1950s. If the Soviets were to attack, the agency worried, it might be mistaken for an alien visitation, causing the public not to take shelter but to flood local authorities with false reports.
The United States was also concerned that the K.G.B. would try to penetrate U.F.O. enthusiast groups that were pestering the American government for details about military capabilities and secret programs. “None of that ever panned out; there is absolutely no evidence that any of these U.F.O. groups were stalking horses for the K.G.B.,” Dr. Robarge said. Those Cold War anxieties, featuring both the possibility of planetary destruction and the threat of Russian disinformation, have echoes in the current day. The fuzzy Navy videos of recent years that show some unexplained phenomena resonated with the public much as reports of sightings 50 years earlier.
While government officials may be frustrated with the public gravitating to reports of space aliens to understand unexplained phenomena, some experts say the government’s own reflexive silence contributed. “Government secrecy has acted as a spur toward conspiratorial thinking, and it has aggravated that tendency in some sectors of the American public,” said Steven Aftergood, an expert on government secrecy at the Federation of American Scientists. “It’s not just limited to U.F.O.s.”
When the C.I.A. first made public a batch of documents about U.F.O.s in the late 1970s, the press suggested that the government was continuing the cover-up. The government’s best counter, Dr. Robarge said, is to release information as objectively as it can, including both successes and failures. “It’s common in our history that the attempt to conceal a C.I.A. clandestine program feeds suspicions and conspiracies,” he said. The government has long examined reports of unidentified flying objects or unidentified aerial phenomena — sometimes with skepticism, other times more credulously.
Project Blue Book, an Air Force effort running in the 1950s and 1960s to examine U.F.O. reports, is undoubtedly the most famous, fascinating young people for generations and inspiring television programs. The C.I.A. viewed Project Blue Book positively, believing that many of its investigators had done a good job debunking reports of U.F.O.s. But the effort was shuttered in 1969 after a 1,485-page University of Colorado report, commissioned by the Air Force, cast doubt on the scientific value of examining U.F.O. sightings.
Rumors of alien visitations and the government possession of alien bodies persisted. And in 1985, officials at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base in Ohio issued a fact sheet saying they no longer wanted to hear flying saucer reports. “Periodically, it is erroneously stated that the remains of extraterrestrial visitors are or have been stored at Wright-Patterson A.F.B.,” the statement said. “There are not now, nor ever have been, any extraterrestrial visitors or equipment on Wright-Patterson Air Force Base.”
For many, U.F.O. enthusiasm is merely inspiration for television shows and tongue-in-cheek tourism. But just as the C.I.A. worried that an obsession with aliens during the Cold War would make the American public more susceptible to manipulation by Soviet propaganda and misinformation, there are concerns today about the risks of indulging too deeply in unproven conspiracy theories. “We are gradually losing a consensual view of reality,” Mr. Aftergood warned. “We cannot practice the discipline of self government when people start to adopt widely disparate views of what is real and what is true. So it’s a serious problem. It’s not just a curiosity like U.F.O. sightings have been in the past.”
The USAF Uses Satellite to Track UFOs
The recent U.S. government report on UAPs and comments from current and former intelligence officials repeatedly fall back on the refrain that those ‘Tic Tacs’ and other mysterious objects buzzing Navy warships may be advanced aircraft built by Russia or China.
They say that — but they know it’s not true. In yet another example of a UFO puzzle piece hiding in full view and ignored by the mainstream media, emails published in 2016 by Wikileaks refer to regular tracking of UAPs that’s allegedly recorded them arriving from “deep space” and disappearing beneath the Atlantic Ocean off the coast of Florida.
The emails — between Hillary Clinton’s former campaign chairman John Podesta and former IT contractor Bob Fish — were publicly available in 2016 as reporters Leslie Kean and Ralph Blumenthal were working on a story for the New York Times disclosing that the Pentagon had been secretly studying UFOs for the past decade. However, neither that groundbreaking article, nor any subsequent reporting on the phenomenon by other mainstream media outlets has mentioned the Podesta-Fish emails.
While it’s possible to deduce some reasons for that, first let’s take a closer look at Podesta and Fish and then at the emails themselves.
The Players
John Podesta
John Podesta is a familiar name amongst ufologists and in political circles, although less so to the general public. The 72-year-old Democratic political operative served in the White House under Presidents Bill Clinton (as Chief-of-Staff from 1998–2001) and Barack Obama (as Counselor from 2014–15). Podesta served as Hillary Clinton’s campaign chairman in 2016, although it was the misfortune of having his emails hacked and subsequently published by Wikileaks later that year that elevated his public profile. He has also long been interested in UFOs. For years, Podesta has called for the government release of UFO files, even going so far as to declare early in 2016 that he’d convinced Hillary Clinton to declassify as many files on the phenomenon as possible. Podesta has also been a supporter of Kean’s investigative work on UFOs; he wrote the forward to her 2010 book.
Bob Fish
Podesta may be the marquee name, but it’s the emails sent to him by the lower-profile Bob Fish that are significant. His professional credentials are impressive. He spent most of his two years in the U.S. Marines on active duty in Vietnam, where he was a shift supervisor for the USMC’s Western Pacific data center. He was honorably discharged in 1971, but remained in the information technology field.
In 1984, Fish was hired by Network Equipment Technologies. Two years later, he started a division within that company to work on federal government projects, most notably the White House Communications Agency under Reagan. His LinkedIn page, which includes his resume, indicates that Fish was the “Director of Advanced Programs” from 1988–1993, “managing a highly classified, global network” for a major (but unnamed) DoD intelligence agency.
Enter Wikileaks
On October 7, 2016, within hours of the Washington Post publishing the now infamous Access Hollywood tapes that featured Republican candidate Donald Trump speaking lewdly to program host Billy Bush about women, Wikileaks jumped into the fray, publishing thousands of emails from Podesta’s personal Gmail account.
Given the circumstances, attention focused largely on the timing of the leak, how Wikileaks had come to possess the emails, etc. To the extent that media reported on the content of the emails, the focus was on those that related to Clinton’s campaign and policy positions. Beyond UFO researchers, few paid any attention to Podesta’s intriguing exchange with Fish.
There was at least one exception: More than a year later, a reporter for the Tampa Bay Times in Florida mentioned Podesta’s emails parenthetically in the context of a story about a reported UFO sighting near MacDill Air Force Base — but he downplayed their content. Fish got his name in the paper, but he was simply “a man named Bob Fish,” without the context of Fish’s history of IT contract work on classified projects for the federal government. With that background, and given what we’ve learned now about the Pentagon and UFOs, the Podesta emails take on new significance.
On the evening of March 5, 2015, Fish wrote to Podesta from his Earthlink account. Based on “significant personal experience,” he said, “I can attest that UFO hunters are looking in the wrong places. Random personal observations, fuzzy photographs, and crop circles will never ‘prove’ the existence of anything, especially since UFO appearances to humans are transitory and somewhat related to the observer’s state of mind.” What was needed, he continued, was “hard scientific data collected from instruments that are known to be accurate and reliable.” Which, he added, was available “if one knows ‘where to look’ and ‘what to look for.’” Podesta thanked Fish by email within hours, indicating that he’d not be able to follow up immediately, but that he would keep Fish’s contact information.
‘Tuck this in your UFO files’
Fish, however, didn’t let it go. He went on to claim that the federal government does collect hard UFO data with its Defense Support Program (DSP) satellites, which have orbited Earth since the 1970s. The U.S. Air Force describes these as “a key part of North America’s early warning systems” by detecting missile launches, space launches and nuclear detonations.
What Fish says next aligns with his own LinkedIn resume: While working as a government contractor in the early 1990s, he was “involved in several ‘national interest’ activities such as Desert Storm/Desert Shield and Operation Just Cause.” His email continues:
“While I was never fully briefed into the DSP operation directly, I was introduced to them as the US prepared for Operation Desert Shield and Desert Storm. On occasion, I had lunch with a few of them in the cafeteria of a highly classified organization in El Segundo, CA. No one could get into the cafeteria without TS/SCI clearances, so this was not “lightweight group of gossipers.”
One of these times, a member of that group was really excited — said they’d just picked up a Fastwalker (I assumed that same day). He described how it entered our atmosphere from “deep space” (origin actually unknown, of course, but from the backside of the satellite) and zipped by the DSP satellite pretty closely on its way to earth. Not only was it going very fast but it made a 30 degree course correction (turn) which means it did not have a ballistic (free fall) reentry trajectory that a meteorite might have. So, it was under some sort of control — although whether it was “manned” or just “robotic” there’s no way to tell.”
‘Fastwalkers’
We’ll get to Fish’s next email in a moment, but it’s worth pausing here to note that the high-altitude tracking of ‘Fastwalkers’ has been reported elsewhere, albeit in not as prominent a platform as Wikileaks. Jacques Vallee, the famed French ufologist who was the inspiration for the scientist Lacomb in Close Encounters of the Third Kind, has written many books on UFOs. Not as well-known is this fact: He’s also published memoirs — four thick volumes of them covering the years 1957–1999. In the third volume, Forbidden Science 3: On the Trail of Hidden Truths, Vallee has an intriguing entry written in Palo Alto on July 20, 1980. By this time, Vallee — a computer scientist and Silicon Valley investor — was deep into his UFO research and was well-connected.
The entry below refers to two people: Dr. Christopher “Kit” Green, who worked in the Central Intelligence Agency for 20 years, and Tom Deuley, a retired Naval officer who would go on to be active with the Mutual UFO Network (MUFON). Vallee has this to say:
Kit and Deuley have access to reconnaissance satellite data. They can now check for the presence of objects within 10 days of a sighting. The satellites of VELA-10 type have repeatedly caught what experts call “FastWalkers,” erratic sources of energy. These may represent previously unknown electrical phenomena, or perhaps UFOs. My clearance is still active, so I could see the images if the need arises.”
‘UFOs had a landing and takeoff spot’
Fish wrote Podesta another email the next day, March 6. Reading some UFO material online had jogged his memory about another incident, which he says took place in the cafeteria building in El Segundo:
“I had lunch with a senior USAF NCO who had worked for Project Blue Book in the 1970s (after it had been “officially disbanded). He was an ELINT technician (electronic intelligence) who flew in RC-135s from MacDill AFB in Florida. The ‘normal’ target was Cuba where they did lots of snooping and sometimes challenging the Cubans to turn on radar and other systems.
He said there were times when they were diverted from these missions to track UFOs off the east coast of Florida. His claim was the UFOs had a landing and takeoff spot in the ocean east of Miami, north of Bermuda. He also claimed there was a specific electronic signature (frequency) emanating from them when they were going into or coming out of the water, so they were easy to track. On several occasions they filmed the UFO as it transitioned from water to air or vice versa.”
Fish goes on to note that this same individual was occasionally assigned to fly in a USAF weather aircraft during “hurricane-hunting” missions over the same area where UAPs were, by then, known to enter and emerge from the ocean.
“His specific assignment was kept secret from the other crew members. He would always report back to a dedicated USAF intelligence officer on base when they returned from a mission. He did not know where the intel that he collected was sent for processing or storage … (h)igh quality film of UFOs is ‘out there’ somewhere!”
Fish reaches what seems a reasonable conclusion from that tidbit: If what the person told him was true: “Blue Book was not disbanded — only the outer layer of the onion (the “public information layer) was stripped away in 1970.”
The point merits repeating, or perhaps rephrasing: While the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program headed by Luis Elizondo may have started in 2007 (and supposedly wasn’t looking at any UAP cases earlier than 2004) it’s clear from Fish’s emails and Vallee’s journal entry that after Project Blue Book was shut down in December 1969, the U.S. Air Force remained in the UFO business.
Lacking a complete declassification and release of all UAP files and free, unrestricted tours of Area 51, it may be a fool’s errand to unravel the full scope of what exactly American officials do know about UAPs, but one thing is clear: They know that at least some UAPs are not from China or Russia.
The Role of the Press
So where is the mainstream news media in all this? When emails from well-placed sources describing USAF tracking of UFOs from deep space land on the Internet, why didn’t reporters make inquiries? In 2016, the answer seems easy enough: Even if — in the midst of a heated presidential campaign featuring (to put it charitably) a “colorful” candidate — a reporter had noticed the UFO references (to say nothing of those linking Podesta and a four-star general with disclosure activist Tom DeLonge, of all people) the “tin-foil hat” stigma associated with even pitching a serious UFO story to an editor or TV news producer would have nipped the idea in the bud.
With the 2017 New York Times revelations about the AATIP and subsequent reporting, it would seem the stigma has finally started to wither and die — deservedly so. But one might ask: If this information was available on Wikipedia in 2016, why did journalists who were deep into reporting a story about the government studying UFOs not include the Fish material in their articles? There is no question they knew; Kean herself was already in touch with Podesta and was copied on several of the emails. She responded to Podesta on March 7 of that year: “Another confirmation of yet more documents kept from the public. This knowledge belongs to the people under the law!”
As a journalist who has spent most of my life in newsrooms, I would offer an observation in Kean’s defense: The New York Times editing and fact-checking process, in which editors and reporters haggle over what information will and won’t appear in a story, is legendarily rigorous. In even touching the subject, the Times knew they were going out on a limb; on this story — especially on this story — there was literally no room for error; they had to be right about everything.
My guess: The Podesta emails — these ones, at least — and the allegations in them didn’t make the cut because the information was second-hand from unknown sources: A former IT contractor declares that some unnamed individuals told him something juicy nearly a quarter century ago, and that he overheard others (whose names may not even have been known to him) who said something else. Kean or Blumenthal could easily have called Fish (and perhaps they did) but what would have been the point? The chances of learning the identities of the people he was referring to — and then tracking them down and getting them to confirm it — were close to zero. They already had their story, and plenty of sources who were ready to go on the record. Journalistically, they made the right call.
Epilogue: A Story in ‘Plain Sight’
The tectonic shift in the mainstream media’s approach to the UAP phenomenon we’ve seen in recent years is ongoing.
Reporters are starting to wake up and realize they’ve unwittingly, but willingly, participated in what UAP Disclosure activist Steve Bassett justifiably calls the government’s “truth embargo.” Sections within the American defense and intelligence communities have known for 70+ years that UFOs are real, that E.T.s, or some non-human intelligence, are engaging with humanity. But they’ve spent most of that time lying about it, publicly insisting that there’s no “there” there— and journalists went along with it. Meanwhile, ufologists forged ahead and did the digging for them.
But now some of them are digging on their own, and not just in the United States.
Ross Coulthart Weighs In
Ross Coulthart, one of Australia’s investigative reporter heavy-hitters, is now on the case. Later this month, he has a book on the phenomenon coming out (on Kindle first, then hardback by Harper-Collins later this year): In Plain Sight: An Investigation into UFOs and Impossible Science. The title reflects what is clearly astonishment on his part that journalists have declined to follow up on the pieces of the UFO puzzle available to anyone who cared to look.
Coulthart is no slouch. A member of the International Consortium of Investigative Journalists, Coulthart is an award-winning reporter who has covered intelligence issues, medical scandals, organized crime and even war crimes for both print and broadcast outlets, including Australia’s equivalent of 60 Minutes. Earlier this month, he spoke at length with Bremerton, Wash.-based podcaster Zac Cichy, who recently launched a Patreon-funded program called Project Human. The episode is a must-listen for any journalist covering — or is still skeptical about — the UAP story.
“A large section of the mainstream media is still fast asleep at the wheel,” he told Cichy. “They haven’t woken up to the awesome significance of this. Because I’ve stuck my neck out a little bit, I’ve had phone calls from well-known journalists on very well-known masthead newspapers, TV networks across the world in the last few weeks, and there is this kind of nervous conversation, where they go, ‘Ross, do you really think there’s something to this?’ And I say, ‘Yes, there is!’”
Repeated assertions by former AATIP head Elizondo and former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Intelligence Christopher Mellon that foreign adversaries might be behind UAPs have taken on an increasingly tired and obligatory character. They know perfectly well that Russia and China have nothing to do with this, but their non-disclosure agreements forces both men to perform a semantic dance around the E.T. question that has started to vaguely resemble something akin to a hostage video. Even so, candor does occasionally slip through, as happened a couple weeks ago when CNN’s Jake Tapper asked U.S. Sen. Mitt Romney for his take: “I don’t believe they’re coming from foreign adversaries,” Romney replied. “If they were, why that would suggest that they have a technology which is in a whole different sphere from anything we understand, and frankly China and Russia just aren’t there, and neither are we, by the way.” He said this on CNN. In plain sight.